Comments for Devlopr

Comment on After all! What is this no-framework? by Tim Lind

Tim Lind — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 07:17:51 +0000

Hey.

I know exactly what you mean, in fact, I’ve spent a long time building a framework with the same desires, that it doesn’t do anything that you don’t actually see.

You can have a “framework” that let’s you actually control and know every action that is taking place, instead of bundling actions together. This framework will provide you full control but still deal with all of the messy things so you only need to worry about the core concern.

I have recently created a design that provides this and I’m really happy with it for my (usually very fussy) needs.

I put up a quick preview of some of that “framework”, which ends up actually being more like an API, and I think that is the trick to achieving a powerful and easy to understand framework.

http://timlind.posterous.com/greatest-little-database-framework

Comment on Do Frameworks Fail? When? by Hari K T

Hari K T — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 19:33:47 +0000

I agree we may spend lots of time learning a framework. But once we learn it developing makes faster.
Also for example many of the frameworks uses security measures when getting data’s like the form. We may need to write the same code again and again and debug many in plain PHP. But with the help of framework it reduces.
Also SQL injections etc ..
The client may not be having a technical background , and many of the developers write buggy codes without framework . They are more interested in the layout and design. But once the site goes live and when it gets lots of traffics then he will recognize it.
Also some frameworks has cache that decreases the loading time . So I am always I person standing to go for frameworks.
Also using a particular framework the clients will be able to find any developer who can alter the code later easily. He doesn’t want to search for the same developer if he is busy …
I hope so .
Thanks

Comment on After all! What is this no-framework? by abcphp.com

abcphp.com — Sun, 03 Jan 2010 10:09:28 +0000

After all! What is this no-framework?…

Most frameworks rely on the Hollywood principle: Don’t call us, we will call you! This is the root of all the problems. The classic MVC pattern is a great tool, but it is almost always implemented in conjunction with the Hollywood principle (Technicall…

Comment on After all! What is this no-framework? by Jayesh Kitukale

Jayesh Kitukale — Sun, 03 Jan 2010 01:45:55 +0000

@Paul
Sorry I think I am not writing well enough. What I am trying to tell is that the main feature of any framework is the Callback mechanism which “hides” things. This is the main reason why frameworks are so tricky. If what I am doing is also called framework, then alright, I am just asking to make a “visible” framework where the framework does not hide anything. Everything is plain visible in just a few locations not several intricate web of folders and files. Most framework builders will not call such a framework, a framework at all because, according to them, the most important aspect that of hiding the common stuff will not be done in this no-framework.
I hope I am clear enough now?

Comment on The Mystery of the Dead Project – Exposed by JohnKraft

JohnKraft — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 21:52:29 +0000

hey this nice post and also bookmarked your site to look for more updates…thanks.

Comment on After all! What is this no-framework? by Paul

Paul — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 18:01:31 +0000

Reminds me of Rasmus’ post – http://toys.lerdorf.com/archives/38-The-no-framework-PHP-MVC-framework.html

The main concern is that when you develop your own “no framework” you end up framework anyway, with code that you only understand. Hard to find developers for code that only you understand. Granted if you have the time and resources to properly document and standardize code, you can get around this… but most people can’t.

Comment on Do Frameworks Fail? When? by helloworlder

helloworlder — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 02:56:00 +0000

I agree wholeheartedly. Recently I had to choose between using the Zend Framework or CakePHP. In the end the Zend Framework was the winner by a long shot. People say that RAD frameworks like Rails and CakePHP are great for beginners because it’s easy to get started. I disagree strongly. It’s like using Dreamweaver without knowing HTML or CSS. When you run into a problem you are totally lost. I think RAD frameworks are great for people who are proficient or experts in OO programming and MVC, but for beginners there’s no taking shortcuts. You can’t use a framework without knowing how it *really* works.

I made a loooong post (well not that long) on Stack Overflow on the topic of CakePHP vs. the Zend Framework so I’m not going to repeat everything in this comment. The link to the post is:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/77371/zend-framework-or-cakephp/1944557#1944557

Comment on Do Frameworks Fail? When? by Jayesh Kitukale

Jayesh Kitukale — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 08:06:15 +0000

@Paul Good that you asked the question about the alternative. Here is the post I wrote to answer your question. After all! What is this no-framework?

Comment on Do Frameworks Fail? When? by Demosthenes

Demosthenes — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 00:00:17 +0000

It sounds like someone had a run in with Zend Framework. The fanboy framework of choice. The ever pretentious bloated mess that can only be described as an Academic Framework.
Where
complexity == unquestionable loyalty from people who don’t know how to code.

Pretty bad when IBM is quietly telling their clients to back away from the entire Zend environment because of the Framework.

I recommend using the “non-framework” known as CodeIgniter if you do choose to use one. Or if you want to deal with some complexity then go with Cake although Cake feels a bit like an overbearing spouse who never wants to give you the remote control.

Comment on Do Frameworks Fail? When? by Paul

Paul — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 20:55:58 +0000

What is the alternative? For many individuals and companies developing your own custom framework or library of code can turn out to be a disaster. Chances are somebody else has done it before and better. Stick to your domain, and focus your development on what separates this web application from others.

One good point this article mentions is that there is a trade off. Every time a framework magically does something for you, realize there is overhead and a cost. Usually its speed.

A good framework is one that does not force use to use all components, and let’s you easily strip out pieces you don’t need. First step get your new app up and running, then focus on finding bottlenecks and implement caching where needed.