Comments on: After all! What is this no-framework? http://www.devlopr.com/after-all-what-is-this-no-framework/ Jayesh Kitukale's Bold Blog Thu, 14 Jan 2010 07:17:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Tim Lind http://www.devlopr.com/after-all-what-is-this-no-framework/comment-page-1/#comment-32 Tim Lind Thu, 14 Jan 2010 07:17:51 +0000 http://www.devlopr.com/?p=27#comment-32 Hey. I know exactly what you mean, in fact, I've spent a long time building a framework with the same desires, that it doesn't do anything that you don't actually see. You can have a "framework" that let's you actually control and know every action that is taking place, instead of bundling actions together. This framework will provide you full control but still deal with all of the messy things so you only need to worry about the core concern. I have recently created a design that provides this and I'm really happy with it for my (usually very fussy) needs. I put up a quick preview of some of that "framework", which ends up actually being more like an API, and I think that is the trick to achieving a powerful and easy to understand framework. http://timlind.posterous.com/greatest-little-database-framework Hey.

I know exactly what you mean, in fact, I’ve spent a long time building a framework with the same desires, that it doesn’t do anything that you don’t actually see.

You can have a “framework” that let’s you actually control and know every action that is taking place, instead of bundling actions together. This framework will provide you full control but still deal with all of the messy things so you only need to worry about the core concern.

I have recently created a design that provides this and I’m really happy with it for my (usually very fussy) needs.

I put up a quick preview of some of that “framework”, which ends up actually being more like an API, and I think that is the trick to achieving a powerful and easy to understand framework.

http://timlind.posterous.com/greatest-little-database-framework

]]> By: abcphp.com http://www.devlopr.com/after-all-what-is-this-no-framework/comment-page-1/#comment-22 abcphp.com Sun, 03 Jan 2010 10:09:28 +0000 http://www.devlopr.com/?p=27#comment-22 <strong>After all! What is this no-framework?...</strong> Most frameworks rely on the Hollywood principle: Don’t call us, we will call you! This is the root of all the problems. The classic MVC pattern is a great tool, but it is almost always implemented in conjunction with the Hollywood principle (Technicall... After all! What is this no-framework?…

Most frameworks rely on the Hollywood principle: Don’t call us, we will call you! This is the root of all the problems. The classic MVC pattern is a great tool, but it is almost always implemented in conjunction with the Hollywood principle (Technicall…

]]> By: Jayesh Kitukale http://www.devlopr.com/after-all-what-is-this-no-framework/comment-page-1/#comment-21 Jayesh Kitukale Sun, 03 Jan 2010 01:45:55 +0000 http://www.devlopr.com/?p=27#comment-21 @Paul Sorry I think I am not writing well enough. What I am trying to tell is that the main feature of any framework is the Callback mechanism which "hides" things. This is the main reason why frameworks are so tricky. If what I am doing is also called framework, then alright, I am just asking to make a "visible" framework where the framework does not hide anything. Everything is plain visible in just a few locations not several intricate web of folders and files. Most framework builders will not call such a framework, a framework at all because, according to them, the most important aspect that of hiding the common stuff will not be done in this no-framework. I hope I am clear enough now? @Paul
Sorry I think I am not writing well enough. What I am trying to tell is that the main feature of any framework is the Callback mechanism which “hides” things. This is the main reason why frameworks are so tricky. If what I am doing is also called framework, then alright, I am just asking to make a “visible” framework where the framework does not hide anything. Everything is plain visible in just a few locations not several intricate web of folders and files. Most framework builders will not call such a framework, a framework at all because, according to them, the most important aspect that of hiding the common stuff will not be done in this no-framework.
I hope I am clear enough now?

]]> By: Paul http://www.devlopr.com/after-all-what-is-this-no-framework/comment-page-1/#comment-19 Paul Sat, 02 Jan 2010 18:01:31 +0000 http://www.devlopr.com/?p=27#comment-19 Reminds me of Rasmus' post - http://toys.lerdorf.com/archives/38-The-no-framework-PHP-MVC-framework.html The main concern is that when you develop your own "no framework" you end up framework anyway, with code that you only understand. Hard to find developers for code that only you understand. Granted if you have the time and resources to properly document and standardize code, you can get around this... but most people can't. Reminds me of Rasmus’ post – http://toys.lerdorf.com/archives/38-The-no-framework-PHP-MVC-framework.html

The main concern is that when you develop your own “no framework” you end up framework anyway, with code that you only understand. Hard to find developers for code that only you understand. Granted if you have the time and resources to properly document and standardize code, you can get around this… but most people can’t.

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